how should i feel about someone stealing my template?

[jgrayson]

how do you guys think i should feel about someone stealing my design/code/template? this person didn't even ask. as a professional graphic designer/web design it really pisses me off that someone didn't ask for permission but i was wondering what eveyone here thinks. i already have to deal with people stealing my images and using them on their sites without asking and now i have to deal with this. how would you feel if you spent a ton of time on your design/site and someone just completely rips you off without permission or credit to you? (by the way, the template is not yet released to the public for anyone to use)

here's mine:
http://suffocate.us

here's the theif:
LINK REMOVED
the ironic thing is that this person puts watermarks on his images to prevent anyone from stealing them yet he has no problem stealing someone else's design.

this site also stole my design but isn't a photoblog:
http://fobhunter.com/home/

are people that naive to think i can't find out? i prevent hotlinking and i can easily see failed attempts at pulling my files....

[Connie]

I think this is a risk whenever you publish in the net

but: we give PP for free, it is open source, so I think you should also try to accept that your templates will be imitated

I do not excuse this, I think everybody should ask before...

but try to soothe the pain and accept that any template as well is kind of open source :rolleyes:

[meadowlark]

I am inclined to agree with Connie regarding templates, but I will agree with you regarding images. I recently encountered a web site that had seven of my photos as part of their overall theme and opening and I personally wrote them an email and requested that they either remove them or request a price quote. They promptly removed them, but not without exclaiming that they didn't really know where they got them, but thought maybe it was off a free travel site - ya right. And this just happened to be a high dollar industry that did it. I don't have a problem with non-profit entities, but they always ask and they do post a credit to the image.

[jgrayson]

but try to soothe the pain and accept that any template as well is kind of open source :rolleyes:

that's like saying the photos on your site are considered open source and anyone can use them....

there's no difference, you just see it as a photographer and in your mind the photos should be protected but design shouldn't be. there's no diference between someone stealing a photo or a design. i'm a designer and anything i create whether is be a photo or website is owned by me and any use of either without permission is considered copyright infringement and is illegal.

pixelpost IS opensource, free for anyone to use. there is nothing on my site that says my design and photos are free for anyone to use.

[jimhere]

What's the copied part, the comment area at bottom? Has it changed recently?

[jgrayson]

What's the copied part, the comment area at bottom? Has it changed recently?

he did just change it slightly recently but he actually took all of my css and just changed the top.

he even kept the template name and css names the same:
LINK REMOVED

i knew he was using my template because in my CSS i had direct links to some images and when he put the template on his site it was trying to pull up images from my site which was blocked since i don't allow hotlinking.

the least he could do would be to at least change the light grey backgound color

[Connie]

as I wrote, I did NOT defend this, excuse this

what is the internet?
a heaven of morally acting people?
unlikely not
otherwise we would not fight with SPAM and SQL attacks all the time

so this is just another facette of the everywhere behaviour: everybody knows that it is not ok, but they do "everybody does it"....

what can you do?
you can file a lawsuit
you could demand them to stop it, to pay .. .

etc.

I never said that stealing content, stealing design, stealing photos is ok

I just said that life is so

you remember Don Quixote de la Manxa? He fought against windmills

[Dennis]

I have a lot of friends working in the webdesign industry and I've heard of multiple cases their designs where ripped. I must admit, in the early days (say 1999) I also ripped a few sites and copied a design. As for now I try to be original, but sometimes I can't find the inspiration. In that case some of my designerfriends are always willing to help me out by making a basic layout for me to modify.

As for the design of my page: I would not consider it to be opensource, free or whatever. It is copyrighted and I wouldn't like to see it copied.

If someone would ask I will think about it, but if the code is used without permission I will pretty much do anything to stop it.

[Joe[y]]

you are totally within your rights to ask the guy to remove your design from his site or at least give you credit. if he doesn't then i suppose you would have a case for prosecution - though to be honest you'd probably only do that as an idle threat. you're not likely to get much compensation for some css being taken unless he's making profit from it.

it's sad but it happens. this is why i make mine available most of the time anyway... at least that way i get the credit most of the time.

Images © ---------, all rights reserved

i'm no lawyer but looks like he's trying to be a smart ass only copyrighting his images. i might ask my lawyer cousin whether that is some sort of loophole or something.

[jgrayson]

']you are totally within your rights to ask the guy to remove your design from his site or at least give you credit. if he doesn't then i suppose you would have a case for prosecution - though to be honest you'd probably only do that as an idle threat. you're not likely to get much compensation for some css being taken unless he's making profit from it.

it's sad but it happens. this is why i make mine available most of the time anyway... at least that way i get the credit most of the time.

i'm not planning on doing anything other then maybe email him if i have the time. i was just curious to see how you guys felt about it. i just find it funny how protective people are of their stuff but have no issues with taking things from other people.

[jgrayson]

I have a lot of friends working in the webdesign industry and I've heard of multiple cases their designs where ripped. I must admit, in the early days (say 1999) I also ripped a few sites and copied a design. As for now I try to be original, but sometimes I can't find the inspiration. In that case some of my designerfriends are always willing to help me out by making a basic layout for me to modify.

i understand that because there is a huge difference between being inspired/getting ideas from others and actually taking the files and actual design from someone else. i wouldn't even have a problem with a copycat design but if you are going to copy someone else at least do the work yourself. there's nothing wrong with someone looking at a site and thinking "oh i like that" or "i want to do something like that" but there is something wrong in thinking "oh i like that so i'm going to take it"

this guy isn't even smart enough to at least change the name of the template, which is the first thing he should have done.

[blinking8s]

when you get ripped, it means you're cool...so love every minute of it.

[spence]

Imitation is the highest form of flattery. :)

[tami]

Imitation is the highest form of flattery. :)

exactly my thoughts. and i would still love it if you weren't discouraged for making this public (since i do believe you expressed this before) because of this incident. i am interested in upgrading my template and would be honored if you let me use yours.

[devious]

Damn John,

This is not good.. Look at the .css, he even used your imagenames for his one!
How low can you go :)

But, on the other hand, it must be someone who loved your template for let's say 500%!

[ame235]

well. at least he stole everything.
how much should a template be modified to consider it a new one?
Look at how many templates have been inspired by the 235skin v. 1/2,
well some of them are great!!! some of them are awfull!!
everyone does what he wants as i put the template on free download ;)
asking before stealing and leaving credits are just one part of the solution ;)

What goes wrong with that guy is that you did not put the template on free download. So do whatever you can to make him stop using it.
("don't listen to this: shoul have put a code on the varrious js files to delete all the records of the pixelpost db on a special request you are the only to know" - pixeplost creators should pay attention with this!)

[jgrayson]

Damn John,

This is not good.. Look at the .css, he even used your imagenames for his one!
How low can you go :)

But, on the other hand, it must be someone who loved your template for let's say 500%!

you would think he would at least change some colors or file names but he kept eveything the same. he's either dumb or lazy

the funny thing is that my css file was pretty sloppy. i'm always changing my mind and trying many different things so the css right now is really bloated. i haven't had the time to go through it all and clean it up....

[se.nsuo.us]

Well I have been desperately wanting the suffocate template and am living in hope that someday you will release it publicly.

You can try one of the creative commons license - they work for me

[jgrayson]

all is cool now. he emailed me after seeing this thread and apologized.

[jgrayson]

Well I have been desperately wanting the suffocate template and am living in hope that someday you will release it publicly.

You can try one of the creative commons license - they work for me

i'm not worried about licensing it once i release it to the public. once it goes public it goes public :)

it will be release at some point. i've been really busy lately with work and am getting married in less then 2 months. once that passes i'll have more time to clean up the code and get it ready for anyone who wants it....

[jimhere]

... getting married in less then 2 months....
Of course you'll post nicely formatted wedding photos, right?

[jgrayson]

Of course you'll post nicely formatted wedding photos, right?

ha, unfortunately i haev to be in front of the camera this time BUT i'm going to Rome for my honeymoon so i should get some good shots. here's a photo i took at my sister's wedding last month:

http://suffocate.us/index.php?showimage=138

[RAitch]

Hey... this is the theif.

Let me summarize what everything below will say... I didn't intend on stealing the template with bad intentions and was just trying to learn about web design.

A few things about myself

- I'm a computer programmer and often steal/borrow code from elsewhere to either learn how something works or to take shortcuts. This is a typical thing to do in my world and there are resources all over that help out with that.

- I know (or knew) absolutely nothing about web design, HTML, CSS, and pixelpost when this started.

- This was a learning experience for me... and still is.


So, a friend of mine knew I was trying to set-up a web page and recommended PixelPost. I downloaded it and installed it on my provider (simple and quick). Then I uploaded some images and played with the sample templates. They seemed a little boring next to my friend's page... so I wanted something a little more interesting.

That's when I registered here (but didn't get a confirmation email until today) to check out how I could mess around with the templates. After a couple minutes of reading, I started hacking around with the simple template. Then I downloaded another template that 3 people modified before me and started making my own version. When that was done, I didn't like the end result.

Then I started looking for other sites and found some cool links on the forum. I think it was from the "show your custom template off" thread. That's where I found suffocate.us and really loved how it looked.

So, not know much at all... and not thinking about asking for permission... I downloaded the CSS and template files to have a look at how it was done. Then I started messing around with it to see how easy it was to change. I was playing around with the image files trying to make it all look nice (which was pretty hard at first).
Then I was on a role!! I kept going and ended up staying up until 2am a couple nights (can you say adicting?)

After making a lot of progress and understanding how the CSS ties in with the divs and spans... I got brave and started trying to implement other options.

Now we're at today... where I started with the suffocate.us template and really screwed around with it. My intentions were never to just use John's work and blatently steal it... I loved how it was put together and decided to use it as my learning tool.

My intentions were to figure out how to modify the templates then start over from scratch and try to duplicate the design using CSS standards (once I found what and where they are).
I started getting hits like crazy and was wondering where they were coming from... I guess I know now. ;)

SO, as you can see, my page looks a lot different than suffocate.us now (as I've been slowly changing things as I get time) but John is right... I started with his source and CSS files.
That probably wasn't the right thing to do... but I knew starting from scratch would be more frustrating.

Anyway, my intentions are still to tweak the template as I have time and end up designing something of my own merrits... well, that... and using a lot of the code snippits from around here.

So, I've talked with John in PM (since I could send PM but not post in the forum until now) and decided I should publicly accept blame and appologize. Perhaps I should have asked to steal the code... but the last thing I expected was to get noticed and have people going to the site before I was totally ready. That was a shocking surprise.

I've got a lot to learn yet... but I see this forum/community is a very nice and helpful place.

Rich.

[RAitch]

Funny story... I was browsing the forum looking for cool things to try. I checked the New Posts and ended up seeing a thread called "How should I feel about someone stealing my template?"

I remember thinking "I wonder what people here think about that" considering that I did it (for learning).

I went into the thread and just about died when I saw my web page. DAMN! I felt so bad... especially accidently finding a post talking about an unknown theif.... WHICH WAS ME!!

Anyway, I appologize again to John and the forum. I was only trying to learn... and learning I have done.

[se.nsuo.us]

@Rich - it would have been OK if you had just used the design to just learn BUT you did put it up for public display - that amounts to breach of copyright.

There are enough templates out there which kind souls have put out under open licenses...

[RAitch]

Ya.
But how can you see the full effect without putting it online?
Better yet, how can I make modifications and test the display without destroying the current pages? So that it'll connect in to my database and pull up pictures? I've been trying to figure that one out.

I've looked at several templates already... I guess I just chose the wrong one and way to do this.

What copyright was breeched? PixelPost in general... or modifying John's template design? Just curious.

[Connie]

Rich,

why not test it with a local webserver?

there are so many easy to install webservers for windows available, coming with apache, mysql completely

go to www.apachefriends.org and download WAMP

then you can test anything locally without that public trouble

another possibility: you could test it on a webserver, but you could protect that installation with at password

next possibilty: install that template on a webserver, do your tests, download the produced page with the browser, then switch back to a free template

if it will be online for that 20 seconds it needs to open in the browser and safe to your harddisc, it will be (nearly) ok!

but the best think is always:

run a local webserver on your machine!

join the "apachefriends" !

Postscriptum: Pixelpost is free, under license which allows the free use (reed the license information in the /doc-folder

the template is the intellectual property of the person who developed that template (unless it is declared to be free)
you broke the copyright of the template

[RAitch]

Sweet... I'll check into the local webserver idea. (Can you tell I'm totally new to this??)

My bad. Everybody steals ideas and pieces from protected sources. I guess since they're small pieces nobody really cares or notices. I should have known better, but at the time, I didn't see what was wrong with the idea.

I understand why John was confused and upset especially since that's his profession and not just a hobby. I added a reference to his site ASAP in the mean time (even though he said not to) thinking that's the least I can do.
The "copyright" on the template wasn't clear to me... I screwed up, and I appologize. Had I known this was the result, I would have taken a different approach.

Great site, great people, and I'm looking forward to learning more.

[Connie]

Richard, you are welcome!

everybody is allowed to do mistakes unless he learns from that!

[CyberGus]

jgrayson, I would like to use your template if you decide to release it. :) it is a very clean and functional one.

greetings

[jgrayson]

Rich,

you didn't need to publicly apologize. you reached out to me via PM and all is cool with me, most people wouldn't have even done that.

[RAitch]

Rich,

you didn't need to publicly apologize. you reached out to me via PM and all is cool with me, most people wouldn't have even done that.
I know... but I felt so bad and wanted everybody to know that it wasn't my intent to steal your page (for theft sake).

I have no problem taking blame for my own actions. Maybe I'm weird... and I wanted to protect my name I guess. The plus side is this thread has given me a whack-load of traffic.

You're a cool guy... Thanks again.

[jgrayson]

The plus side is this thread has given me a whack-load of traffic.

hahaha

[kristarella]

I was glad to hear both sides of this story.
I probably would have done the same sort of thing when I was learning (am still learning some things). I don't have a local server set up but I've been considering it for a while. More incentive to set one up!

I was going to coment on the rippin off people's pages by saying that if you can look at a site and duplicate it by writing your own code then it's not really stealing it's just unoriginal. Just like you can look at a photograph and take a similar one. Since that's already been covered I'll say, "I concur".

[RAitch]

I set up a portable version of XAMPP on a thumb drive and take my web page design EVERYWHERE I go. I can just plug it in to ANY W2K/XP machine, start the portable web/sql servers, and edit my page content.

REALLY handy and it works great!! Now I can make changes to my pages without totally screwing the online version up.

[tom]

Hi all,

Just read this discussion, which is really interesting to me, but made me worried that I might be doing something considered a no-go. I've been using pixelpost for a couple of months now, and am thinking of using it for my main site. I'm not brilliantly skilled with a lot of the backend stuff, and have downloaded templates which have been available on this site, modifying them to fit in with a particular style when appropriate. I've always credited the template designer with a link, and the phrase: "template based on a design by".

I'm not breaching rules of trust in any way, am I? I'd hate to think I was doing that, and I've been so grateful for all the hard work that people have put into PixelPost.

[TheMarco]

@Tom that seems fine to me, except for when the template has a license not allowing any changes (which would be a bit weird).

A lot of templates (the one I did as well) have CC or GPL licenses. It means you can pretty much do whatever you want on your own site including making changes varying from subtle enhancements to total mutilations (I've seen both ;)

The only thing you can sometimes not do (like with CC-NC) is use it commercially. Other than that you should be fine.

[alexmoomey]

i believe it is fine to use someones template... afterall that is what a template is for. defined as "a figurative something for others to copy".


if one want to charge or copyright they're template i think they are in the rights to do that. but if one hasn't then it is up for grabs. the template i used was offered up for use so as long as i leave credit of the one who made it in the code. which i did... and for a while i used credit of the maker on the front page...at least until i had modified the template enough that was.... well.... modified.


stealing images is a no brainer ... just shouldn't happen at all. stealing design shouln't happen either. but templates are different. its like going to the groccer and buying a cookie cutter. the company can't charge you for every cookie you cut. but they have rights to the template.

so the question is.. do you retain the rights to you template or not? is it copyrighted? all it takes is a bit of text to do so. but keep in mind the more people that use the code you've created.. the more you name is out there as a designer. I use jaysotos template. When you view the code he still has full credit as the maker... i have left it in as he asked... smart companies will seek him out as a designer and not me. And for 6-9 months or so his name was crawled on my front page.

so the big picture is ... it is up to you to keep the rights to you "cookie cutter". buy why would you want to? why make a cookie cutter to cut only one cookie and then store it away for youself? Use it to get your name out there.


ps. forgive me if i have misunderstood any of the above posts or the delima.. or any toes i may have stepped on.

[TheMarco]

It depends really on what your definition of 'template' is. For example, I have made quite a few templates available. Some for Pivot, some for WordPress and my latest one for Pixelpost. Those templates are available and MAY be used by others. And I agree, it got my name 'out there' as I receive more requests for design jobs than I can possibly handle.

However, let's say I never made Dark Matter available and I only used it for MY photoblog. In that case it's absolutely NOT acceptable for someone to steal the look and feel of my photoblog. It's not acceptable whether there's a copyright notice or not. At least it isn't in my opinion.

By the way, I've already seen plenty of people using my stuff with the credits notice ripped out. In a way that's stealing as well since it makes things appear as if the person created the design himself. Annoying but there's not much to do about such behavior I guess. Some people are just rats really...

[Dennis]

I for one will try to inform the user they are using a copyrighted template. There is a reason why my template is not available to the general public and I like to keep it that way.

If it is up for grabs it is basically out of control. Like TheMarco says some will remove the copyright and present it as their own work.

Others will present useful modifications to the original author to make it better.